Subscribe to a newsletter from Streetwise Publications and you will always receive a couple of sales letters thrown in the envelope.
Usually these are business opportunity related offers but there can be the occassional strange offer for a weight-loss course or a speed camera detector.
I’m not surprised that Streetwise do this, it’s good marketing. If you are receiving a newsletter from them then you are already a customer and so related offers for other products are likely to be well received.
So, in with this month’s issue of Passive Income Newsletter (PIN for short) I got a sales letter for a new product which is described as a “back to basics betting method”.
If there’s one thing that sells well in the biz opp world then it is a system involving horse racing.
This one is called the “Lazy Lay Quick Cash System” and has been written by someone called Bill Stratford.
Bill claims that, starting with a £200 bank, he made a tax-free profit of over £47,000 in 2006 by turning the tables and becoming a bookie.
He even provides a run-down of his results he got from laying horses to lose in 2006 and during this time he only had one losing month when he lost £685.60 in October.
His best month was December where he made a massive £21,853.20 in profits spread over 24 bets. Pretty impressive figures…
This system isn’t cheap at £197 but it does come with a guarantee: If Bill’s system has a losing month in the first 3 months after you purchase, you can get a full refund provided that you have followed the system correctly and you send in your betting records to Streetwise.
I’ve purchased a similar laying system in the past but was unable to make it work correctly simply because I had to be glued to the PC in order to trade during a horse race. This was so that I could minimise losses by betting in play.
Not sure if you need to be available during races with the Lazy Lay Quick Cash System. It doesn’t seem that way because Bill says in the sales letter that:
“…you only need to invest a few minutes each day to make this system work for you, scan your morning paper, and place your bets…”
Sounds great but I’m not sure if I’m going to buy this one - not yet anyway!
Bill Stratford is correct in one respect:
“…You know it’s hard to pick winners, so it’s not surprising you never see a poor bookmaker. After all, picking losers (which is what most punters do every day at the bookies’) should be easier…”
2 lays tomorrow.
Comment by graham – March 10, 2008 @ 9:37 pm
Hi Ben, unfortunately I haven’t been keeping a record of the names of the horses, just how they went on.
I will do so in future.
If you e.mail me, I’d be happy to show the way I work out the lays the night before racing.
Comment by graham – March 10, 2008 @ 4:25 pm
Hi Graham,
Thanks for your comments, they make for very interesting reading!
I could be making mistakes but unfortunately the Lazy Lay team do not publish their selections anywhere so I can’t check with them…
“finally i cannot agree with your record of selections. for instance on 3 march there were 5 lazy lays but you only mentioned 2. i have found discrepancies on other dates as well”
I’ve checked my notebook on this one and I only have 2 selections on the 3rd March. Please could you list the horses I missed? I could be missing a vital ingredient for selections!
Just checked the RP, no selections tomorrow…
Thanks,
Ben
Comment by Ben – March 9, 2008 @ 8:37 pm
just double checked my records. started on 2 nov 2007, and system about 15 points up, after allowing for laying at around 10-15% above sp and allowing for commission at 5%
better than tommo that’s for sure.
just realised. i am laying the selections (on paper) whatever the price, even if it’s over 4.0 on betfair. that could account for some of the discrepancies.
Comment by graham – March 9, 2008 @ 1:01 am
i purchased the LLS about 4 months ago and have been paper trading only so far.
while the results have not been outstanding, they are showing a profit, which after 4 months is fairly encouraging.
i am allowing for commission and if a horse won at say 2/1 i am counting it as a 9/4 winner. in other words i am adding quite a bit on to the sp to make sure that the profit is not over estimated.
finally i cannot agree with your record of selections. for instance on 3 march there were 5 lazy lays but you only mentioned 2. i have found discrepancies on other dates as well.
i am fairly meticulous when working out the lays. it is fairly easy, takes about 2 minutes on the RP website, so i’m sure that you have made mistakes in arriving at the lays, with respect.
feel free to contact me if you wish.
regards.
graham
Mike, you are quite correct. Lethal was a qualifying lay.
re the ruling “beware of 2nd favs being withdrawn” i have ignored that for record purposes. should make not much difference in the long run.ie, if 2nd fav wdn, obviously we’ll lay more winners but at a much shorter price, so should even itself out (roughly)
Comment by graham – March 9, 2008 @ 12:47 am
Hi Mike,
Looking back, I can’t see why I didn’t take the “Cyborg” bet but there must’ve been a reason! Unless it’s one I just missed by accident?
I did miss a winner on Wednesday (Grimes Faith, 1850, Wolves) because the best odds I could get were over 3.50…
So, if I had taken both of those bets it would’ve been 11 winning bets in a row, a very nice sequence to have…
Today (Saturday) I am not taking Lethal (1820, Wolves) because back in January it was racing in Class 2 races and this particular race is a Class 5.
It’s a judgement call and comes down to individual I think. In this case I’m not 100% sure that Lethal is a ‘false favourite’ so I’m going to discount this particular selection.
Hope that helps!
Thanks for your input by the way, how is your bank looking?
Cheers,
Ben
Comment by Ben – March 8, 2008 @ 10:34 am
Hi Ben
I’ve been paper trading the system from late November. A couple of observations. I had Cyborg as a selection on 6/3/08 in the Lingfield 2:00, it came 2nd with an SP of 2.33. Also, you say that you haven’t selections for 8/3/08, I’ve got Lethal in the Wolverhampton 6:20.
Regards
Mike
Comment by Mike – March 8, 2008 @ 2:25 am
I agree the system is a disappointment and I am requesting a refund as well.
They tell me at Hilite DMS (the company that markets this) they are in profit, I don’t know how, I stick to the rules by the letter.
I just hope I get the refund.
Comment by Roy – February 25, 2008 @ 6:24 pm
Hi Kim,
Glad to hear you got your money back but it’s ridiculous that you had to fight for a refund. I imagine that although you got a refund you are still down in terms of money from the losing wagers at BetFair (and you’ve wasted a lot of time with this system).
Things don’t look good with my results. Last week was a complete disaster and this week isn’t much better so far. Results will be posted this weekend but I’ve got to say - my experience with the Lazy Lay system has been pretty terrible.
Thanks,
Ben
Comment by Ben – February 21, 2008 @ 10:17 am
Ben,
Just to let you know afetr going direct to the publishers ( several times) of the Lazy Lay they have refunded my money in full, James from lazy lay just ignored me.
regards,
Kim
Comment by Kim – February 20, 2008 @ 11:37 pm
Hi Kim,
Many thanks for the detailed post of your results. I’m very surprised that the company behind the Lazy Lay system hasn’t refunded your money. I’m not going to mention them by name at the moment but it’s safe to say that they have a reputation in the UK market and messing people around over a few quid is puzzling me. Surely it’s not worth the loss of reputation?
What is probably happening is that they have already paid their affiliates the 50% and so do not want to refund because they would have to ask for money back from their “JV” partners.
Keep trying - they promised to give money back if you had a losing month in your first 3 months. By my reckoning (if you’ve got similar results to me) you’ve had 3 losing months!
Thanks,
Ben
P.S. I’m continuing until at least 100 bets have passed. The last 11 bets have resulted in 9 winning wagers including one today…
Comment by Ben – February 12, 2008 @ 9:41 pm
Hi Ben,
Coincidentally, I to started testing this system live on the 8th November 2007 finishing on the 5th February (3 months) I have been laying to 10% of bank and my bank sits after 3 months @£94.28 with a low of £50.00 in Dec and low of £56.0 in january a high of £197 at the end of november.
The strike rate has been around 58% and it made a level stakes loss of -2.26pts over the period.
The lazy lay people show a profit but the odds they are laying at are unattainable for most, yours and my results are very very similar acheiveing very similar odds which goes to show what is realistically achievable, forget this system if it can not profit based on level stakes it will not whatever the staking plan.I know from a few years of experience that any low odds systems whether lay or back must have a strike of at least 65% to make a small profit.
Interestingly enough the lazy lay people emailed me about a selection which was selected when the favourite was a non-runner on the day of the race, the selection was not the favorite in RP which explains why some of their results are different, they change the rules when it suits them and then state that your selections are different from theirs and incase anyone is wondering?? 6 emails to cliam my 3 month money back guarantee, have failed to get a response from the lazy lay people, and anyone who wants to log a dispute with paypal if you do it after 45days of purchasing they will not accept it.
I hope this helps.
regards,
Kim
Comment by Kim – February 12, 2008 @ 12:25 am
Hi Ben,
January is traditionally a bad time for reliable, quality races. The lazy lay system does not perform as well each January. Perseverence is needed. This last week has been a very good week for the system and I suspect we are coming out of the losing streak now. February will be very interesting.
Comment by Roy – January 28, 2008 @ 2:04 am
Hi Roy,
Thanks for taking the time to post your results, very interesting indeed…
Since I’ve been using the Lazy Lay system I have noticed that every time I lay a bet at 2.0 or under, I lose money so I think your idea of only laying at over 2.0 is spot on.
Also, I agree with you that laying at 4.0 is much too risky. I’ve now capped it at 3.45 - and even losing at these odds is painful.
Now I look back, the 12th-19th of December was a great period. I managed 7 winning bets and just 2 losers.
This week so far has been 4 winning bets and 2 losers… Site will be updated over the weekend.
Nice to compare notes on this system. I agree with you that it is best to limit the bets you place to between 2.0 and 3.5 to stem the tide of losers.
I’ve got two picks today, one at Kempton and the other at Wolves.
Fingers crossed!
Thanks,
Ben
Comment by Ben – January 25, 2008 @ 8:40 am
Hi Ben,
Been using this system since Jan 5th and am about 23% down as of today. but I’ve just had 3 winning bets in a row and from the records for 2007, January is a poor performing month anyway with this system. I suspect February may show improvement. From the 12th to the 19th December when I started using this system I made 65% return on my money so this system has got potential so I won’t give up on it yet. However, I do agree, we don’t know if the results on the website are rigged.
Please note, in December I only bet at odds between 2.00 and 3.00 but now I am laying at up to 4.00 at times which I think is too risky. I think I would limit lays to 3.5 max. Any comments?
Comment by Roy – January 25, 2008 @ 2:15 am
Hi Mike,
Many thanks for the comment.
I’ve just updated my results for the year to date. Unfortunately a run of 4 losing bets in a row have made a complete mess of the bank and they came just after I almost got back to my original starting point of £200.
After the one race this evening (a winning bet!), I am now 30% down.
I can’t see how anyone using this system turned £200 into £40k or whatever the claim was in the sales letter and would love to see real, detailed proof of this.
I promised to use the system for at least 100 wagers and, with just 51 made so far, I have some way to go before I quit.
I’ll keep you posted!
Comment by Ben – January 20, 2008 @ 1:31 am
Hi Ben
Been reading your results from the Lazy Lay Profits System with great interest as I have looked at many Lay systems over the last couple of years.
I did actually trial this system for a month last year for Clive Keeling of What Really Wins Money but I regret to say that I fared no better than you.
So I hope you do better with it in 2008, I shall watch this space!
Sadly, it does seem that a winning Lay system is very hard to find, the nearest I have found so far is the Bank Vault Report. You may know of it, you operate a 5 rung ladder with an online calculator to work your bets out
The problem is that it gets a bit scary if you havnt had a winning bet after the 3rd rung, the liability makes you wonder if its worth the stake, even with a 2.7 ceiling.
However, I live in hope of finding the answer.
Regards
Mike Cooper
Comment by Mike Cooper – January 18, 2008 @ 3:22 pm
4 bets today, all at Wolverhampton. 3 good bets (for us anyway i.e. three losing horses) and 1 bad bet (1 winner).
Yesterday wasn’t so good, mainly because I missed one race and couldn’t get decent odds on another. The one I missed would’ve been a winning selection and the one I couldn’t get on would’ve been a loser so I guess it evened things out.
According to my calculations there are three races tomorrow which satisfy the criteria - check the main site for results which will probably be updated this weekend…
http://www.bizoppsuk.com/lazy_lay_profits_system.php
Comment by Ben – December 13, 2007 @ 11:44 pm
This system has been pushed in the What Really Wins Money newsletter by Clive Keeling. Interestingly, though, the link to the sales website has ‘cp’ at the end, which may refer to Canonbury Publishing, who Clive works for. The link also has some impressive results, which stop just when Ben (December 9th) was at maximum profit! Now this may just be a coincidence, but I would like to see how things progress over the next few weeks before I shell out £197…
Comment by Jools – December 9, 2007 @ 1:33 pm
My results so far?
Well, over the course of a month I am 25 % down…
Check out my story here:
http://www.bizoppsuk.com/lazy_lay_profits_system.php
If you’ve been using the Lazy Lay Profit System, it’d be great to hear how you are doing. Leave a comment by filling out the form below…
Comment by Ben – December 9, 2007 @ 12:38 am